Book and Sword 02

[AnalyticChick]

The thing with the bloodbath at the end is that I just stopped caring after a while. Yes, it is very emotionally striking for one main character to die off. But when the good guys just keep getting killed (not to mention my favorite baddie, though I was expecting that), almost meaninglessly and in rapid succession, it really takes away from the potency of the moment.
Must have been a lot of pig blood on the set after that scene...

[Ian Liew]

Originally posted by alecforever815
and to answer ur quesion...the ending deviated quite a bit, in the novel zhao ban shan wasn' a traitor, and those ppl didn't die

Apart from the hunchback, and Huo Qingtong's two teachers, the whole team of good guys are supposed to survive, and yes, Zhao Banshan is supposed to be Hu Fei's sworn elder brother in Flying Fox, so it's a bit messed up. I also agree about not caring when too many people die in succession - about ten brothers died in less than twenty seconds.... they just felt like extras. If they were killed off slowly, one by one, with more lag between them, I might have felt a bit sadder. But as it was, it was more a case of "Hmm.. lessee.. did this one die.. and that one.. who's left... hmm"

[Yo Kang]

So.... Wait... Who killed WTL and who was the traitor?

[alecforever815]

zhao ban shan was the traitor

and analytic chick's obsession killed off wtl...lol with help from zbs (or maybe it was the other way around> anyways, it was the two of them)

[Yo Kang]

I mean, in the novel.

[alecforever815]

if i remember correctly, (i read all the jy novels more than once, except for this one, cuz i cna't stand that stupid cjl went for kesili in the end) but anywyas...i dun think wtl died in the novel...that is, if i remembered correctly, and i know for sure that in the novel zbs wasn't a traitor

[Yo Kang]

ARGh. THIS IS SO SCRWED UP! ARGH!!

[AnalyticChick]

I am indeed back, and full into the swing of things. I am actually easing myself into the series, so I caught three episodes tonight.

I just don't understand why I am supposed to be rooting for CJL and his bunch in this series.


I mean, Qian Long is a dictator. He is an absolute ruler with the power of life and death over the whole of China. But that is because he is the emperor of China, and that is how the whole emperor-ship works.
Sure he may be petty sometimes, like his gaining by force of Princess XianXian, but we have to remember that he is a man. He is fallible. He is a man with a whole lot of power, but he is still a man. In other parts of the series, like when he orders the royal storages to be opened to feed the famine, he is doing his best for his people. Unlike other emperors I can name who really abused their powers, he has both the ability and inclination to do right by his people. Why should we be hoping for a reversal of the system now when we have finally found a half decent emperor?

Also, I don't see instances in which Qian Long just goes out and butchers innocent people for fun. The RFS keeps going on about how he abuses the common people, but I just don't see it. Literally.
Sure, he orders crackdowns of cities, but that is because he is trying to advert a rebellion among his people that would cause even more deaths and destruction. And he does not order his soldiers to go out there and massacre everyone. They haev orders to be root out the rebels. Of course there are going to be chinks in the process, especially down the line, but that is inherent in any kind of hierarchical system. I can't imagine how having a Han emperor would solve the problem of incompetant, violent, or just plain sadistic lower level officers.

In conclusion, I don't buy the value system of this series. It just feels wrong...

[alecforever815]

weiyi, ur back!!�@for the b&s thread i mean

well...see if u read the original novel, it makes qian long seem worse..

but again, cjl isn't the usual jy hero. he's not like guo jing, or yang guo, or zhang wu ji (alec's face comes up whenever i say zwj, lol). those ppl are considered heroes and everything, but cjl isn't. in fact, he's one of the few jy main characters who everyone hates, (mainly due to his "ditching " (sry, cant find another rite word for it at the moment) of hqt and went to love xiang xiang isntead) and also, ppl say that he came from a well respected family, looks good, is both great at fighting and also seems like oen of the usual perfect prince, but in fact, he lacks the leadership type of quality. so don't wry, ur not exactly supposed to be rooting for cjl, most of the jy fans don't.

[tinac]

Hm, I think the whole point of their fighting was to take China from the Manchurian. The majority of the empire are Hans but the ruling/class is the Manchurian .....

[AnalyticChick]

It's good to know that I am not alone in my CJL dislike. Seriously, this guy bothers me to no degree.

The fact that the later part of the series degenerates into probing into his love square with various main characters getting killed intermittantly really turns me off. I got through a lot more episodes than I thought I would tonight becasue I kept fast forwarding over everything.

Also, I know this has been said before, but Princess Fragrance also bothers me to no degree. I feel she and CJL really make a good pair and should go off and be in love somewhere away from me.

One main problem for me with this series is that I didn't buy into thir worldview. Another was that I enjoyed the secondary characters much more than the main characters. And although I tried sticking with it, even going back to it, I don't think this is working out for me.

So I am officially cutting Book and Sword lose. Interesting series, but ultimately, I just couldn't stand the leads.

[Lady Zhuge]

You're giving up on this series, Weiyi? I guess this means I can place this further back in line, then?

[Ian Liew]

I think that really explains why the RFS failed in its mission. Simply being foreign was not enough for the Qing to lose its mandate.

If you look at the other foreign dynasty, the Yuan, it was easily toppled by the Ming because it was tyrannical and barbaric in its government. Rebel forces popped up left right and centre, and the Mongols, experts at attacking and waging war, but totally unsuited for government in times of peace, just fell apart. Almost a century of comfort in China also dulled their fighting instinct and their empire in the West was also being slowly eroded by European and Muslim forces. Zhu Yuanzhang had a tough fight to drive them out of China, but it was easy for him to get support from the people.

With the Qing it was slightly different. The only chance China had to drive the Qings out was during the initial stage when the cruel Dorgon was in charge, with the Yangzhou massacre and all. The Qings (aided by the traitors Wu Sangui, Shang Kexi and Geng Zhengzhong) managed to sweep the remnants of the Ming and Dashun forces over the course of a few years and establish Manchu dominance over the Han. This would not have been possible if the former Ming generals had not defected. Hatred of the Manchus was at its peak then, but there was no organised defence. The Ming had lost its mandate of heaven, and so had the Dashun. There was simply no resistance, merely isolated instances of heroism and martyrdom. It was after Dorgon died, and Shunzhi passed the throne to Kangxi, when anti-Manchu feelings were supressed significantly. Kangxi was arguably one of the wisest emperors, and learned from the mistakes of the Yuan. Knowing there was no way the Manchus could contain the Hans if they decided to rebel, he gave them equal respect as the Manchus, and also appointed many as important court ministers. The Manchus and Hans ran the country together, even though the Emperor was Manchu. The Qing government adopted a moderate and benevolent stance towards its peasants, and after Kangxi died Yongzheng carried on his father's work by implementing many policies which benefitted the poor. By the time Qianlong came to power, the legacy left by his father and grandfather had firmly given the Qing government the mandate to rule China wisely. The Qing was at its peak, and while Qianlong did make many mistakes, he was by no means a bad emperor, and it would have been hard for the RFS to stir up anti-Qing feelings in the same way they could have pre-Kangxi.

Ironically, after Qianlong died, the Qing went into deterioration, and the subsequent Emperors (and Empress Dowager) led the country into chaos, and anti-Qing sentiment surfaced again. The Hans blamed the Manchus for all their woes (the White Lotus and Taiping Rebellions were both anti-government rather than anti-Qing, but they managed to draw on anti-Qing sentiment quite successfully), and when the Qing Dynasty was abolished, there was a genocide of Manchus by the Hans in certain places. This means that during the RFS, it would have been immensely possible for CJL and his friends to achieve what they had wanted to if Qianlong had been a despot, since the Chinese were only willing to bear with the Manchu Emperor if their needs were met.

[AnalyticChick]

...And this is why we go to college.

But seriously, that was a damn fine analysis. It is very interesting to note how idealism can only carry a cause so far before pragmatism creeps in. Who cares if the absolute monarch rules absolutely, as long as the guy is competant. And Qian Long was eminently competent.

Even in looking at this series, Qian Long's brand of leadership works so much better for the emperorship than Chen Jia Luo's. Qian Long rules by dictate, by ukase, by the sheer force of his will. Whatever he wants can and will be done. CJL, on the other hand, leads by concensus. When this works when you have a small group of equals, or quasi-equals, it does not work as well for leading a vast country of millions.

Also, Qian Long was born and bred for the emperorship. He knows how to handle the vast amounts of power he has been given and does not have anything to prove as well. Contrast this to if the RFS were to bring in a new, Han, emperor. This guy would never have had absolute power before and thus would be hungry for a taste of what it can do.

Think of a kid who has only eaten sugar cubes getting set loose in a candy store. Then extrapolate to the whole of China. Not a very cheery scene, is it?

[rachellam]

i m sooooooo equally annoyed at cjl!!!!!!!

n the gurl who played princess heung heung.....supposedly she's supposed 2 b jin yong's most beautiful women....a fairy from heaven.....in my opinion its an insult to past actresses who played jin yong's gurls....ex: zhou xun[huang rong], all the girls in dgsd n all of wai siu bo's wives in all the versions.....seriously!!!

[Lady Zhuge]

*major bump*

I just (and finally) started watching this series. I think it's been long enough since I accidentally glazed over some spoilers that I've forgotten most of them.

Ramblings galore: After 3 episodes, it's pretty good in terms of action and pacing. Too bad Zhang Tie Lin got killed off so quickly, though. I'm not used to him not playing Qianlong. Speaking of that, the Qianlong in here is such a jerk and the actor they chose to play him is at best. The background music is so loud at times that it drowns out the actors' voices. Sun Li is muy tall! She even towers over her father and master in this show. However, if she wants to pass off as a guy, wearing a really tight robe with a belt isn't the way to go about it. It's weird seeing Joey Leung in here. I keep thinking, "what's Zhong Yi doin' with a half bald head when he's supposed to be working with Da Yong to solve the next case!?!" It's good to see Tse Kwan Ho again. He impressed me as a bad guy in "Sui Tang Ying Xiong Zhuan", so I'm anxious for him to wow me as a good one in this series.

[AnalyticChick]

Sweet! You probably won't be focused on the same aspects (or rather, ahem, aspect ) that I was. However, I hope you like it.

I know I wrote like a spolier ridden manifesto on a couple of episodes of this series. It is probably still hanging around somewhere, so give it a look if you are so inclined.

Finally, what are your thoughts on dear ZZZ thus far? If you've seen the first episodes, you must have seen his first scene at some point. Was that or was that not a totally amazing villian entrance? =

[Lady Zhuge]

Oh yeah, I'll probably read along as I watch this series.

Every time your "aspect" appears (especially the first time), I am reminded of all the gushing you've done and so he somehow makes a better impression on me. ZZZ is a pretty cool villain, but he hasn't gotten much screen time. He almost had CJL beat when the latter's bros came and ganged up on him. At a few angles during the midnight fighting scene, he reminded me a bit of Xiao Hai ge ge, which is never a bad thing.

I'm already on the LYZ and YYT (plus his super awesome multi-purpose gold flute) bandwagon. I'm not sure if YYT knows that LYZ is really a female yet, but it's so funny watching them thrust insults back and forth and duking it out. Frankly I think LYZ's father would have been wiser to just leave her pinned to the wall. That way, she will have to stay out of trouble for awhile.

There are 30 episodes in this series, but every episode is so long. I really wouldn't mind more episodes that were cut better and shorter in length.

[AnalyticChick]

A few angles during the midnight fighting scene, he reminded me a bit of Xiao Hai ge ge, which is never a bad thing.

If you haven't already, check out the SXH thread. I got a pic of the Shu Mountain guy. Although not an uncanny resemblance, there are definitely some similarities there.

I'm already on the LYZ and YYT (plus his super awesome multi-purpose gold flute) bandwagon. I'm not sure if YYT knows that LYZ is really a female yet, but it's so funny watching them thrust insults back and forth and duking it out.

I ended up respecting YYT, with or without his flute, but he angsts a WHOLE ton later on, which I had to fast forward over. Just to give you a heads up on that plot "development" aka character regression.
But I just can't get over the fact that he uses his flute to hit people and then puts his lips to it. What?

I really wouldn't mind more episodes that were cut better and shorter in length.

Actually, the beginning is still relatively tight. Watch out for the middle especially when PF enters the scene. If you think they are taking a long time to sort out their political differences, they take a MUCH longer time to alternatively fall into love and then do stupid/romantic things because of it. Every longing look, every backward glance is magnified and held on screen ad infinitum.

[Lady Zhuge]

But I just can't get over the fact that he uses his flute to hit people and then puts his lips to it. What?

True, true, but stranger and more disturbing things have happened. Like, for instance, the leader of Tie Zhang Bang Zhou something or other killing his own son all in the name of 'yi qi' and then saying how his son was a 'nan zi han da zhang fu'. Give me a friggin' break, he was just a little kid and kids tend to not be the greatest of liars.

I was hoping for some more LYZ+YYT screen-time, but alas, there was none in last night's viewing. YYT has been too occupied daydreaming about LB and LYZ did her job luring ZZZ away. I feel sorry for YYT. He can't help his feelings towards LB and she made it worse by somehow thinking he was her husband and coming on to him, then realizing her mistake and retracting and reacting as though everything was YYT's fault. One small thing. In the first post of your snarky episode guide, you have YYT as the 13th bro, but he is really the 14th.

PF hasn't entered the scene yet and I can't say I'm looking forward to when she does. I want more action and less of this lovey dovey slow stuff.