6 Mai Shen Jian Article

[yittz]

I am with Danshu, it doesn't make sense to only have 6 fingers when meridans spread both sides. Also Danshu, does that mean each pinky have two meridians? Maybe Duan Yu used one hand in his anxiety, and poked 4 holes from each of his first 4 fingers, and 2 from the pinky.

[siegefried]

If I'm not wrong, the energy is gathered in one merdian, and to make it more concentrated, is fired off only from one finger...

[danshu_]

I am with Danshu, it doesn't make sense to only have 6 fingers when meridans spread both sides. Also Danshu, does that mean each pinky have two meridians? Maybe Duan Yu used one hand in his anxiety, and poked 4 holes from each of his first 4 fingers, and 2 from the pinky.

Well, in real life TCM, two of the six meridians Jin Yong mentions do exit from the pinky of both hands. One merges with the other (which probably implies one stream, not 2). The energy from 2 meridians exits through the left and right pinkies (cause the meridians are mirrored). All other fingers are associated with one meridian only (according to TCM).

I dont know if my little article accurately explains how Jin Yong's 6 Mai works, but according to what he wrote about the 6 meridians involved, coupled with real TCM, what I wrote would make sense. The idea of 6 meridians should not have anything to do with the number of fingers involved. It was never 6 finger Shen Jian, but 6 Mai. I just dont know if JY stuck to the logical TCM facts or not.

[yittz]

Can the right pinky fire via both mai? Or can the right pinky fire via one mai, while the left pinky fire via a different mai (albeit the two mais mirror each other like you said)?

[danshu_]

Can the right pinky fire via both mai? Or can the right pinky fire via one mai, while the left pinky fire via a different mai (albeit the two mais mirror each other like you said)?

No, its kind of tricky. The exact same meridian exists on both sides of the body. So the exact same meridian exits out of its associated finger on both hands (I'm just talking TCM here, not sure whether it applies to JY's 6mai).

So 2 different meridians (the heart channel, and the small intestine channel) exit via the pinky. Since these two meridians exist on the left and right sides of the body, the heart and small intestine meridians exit via both pinkies. They both come out the left, and they both come out the right.

[yittz]

Which makes sense. It's just that what Jin Yong wrote confused me. He constantly refered to one mai to one side of the body. I guess if Duan Yu fires both from one pinky, then the streams would merge (not make a fatter sword ).

[danshu_]

Which makes sense. It's just that what Jin Yong wrote confused me. He constantly refered to one mai to one side of the body. I guess if Duan Yu fires both from one pinky, then the streams would merge (not make a fatter sword ).

ahh, yeah, its possible Jin Yong did not realize that the meridians are mirrored when he was doing his research for this

[K2Grey]

I would like to point out that if using multiple meridians simultaneously really does split up the power between each beam, then Duan Yu at this point could use 1/6 of his inner power and still make a hole in a person's chest, and this was before he sucked JMZ.

[IcyFox]

To answer some issues raised earlier...

Such as whether the person is able to control his internal energy so well that he can recover any energy not used.

Not possible. The process to recover any energy not used also requires energy. The process to save energy not required for use also requires energy. See Feynman's explanation for Maxwell's Demon.

A person with enough internal energy to wield 6MSJ would also probably outpace someone who cant, yes?

Not necessarily. 6MSJ is a skill that an exponent uses if he wants to project his qi out to form qi sword(s). It's not a skill to improve inner power, it's not a skill to improve sword-welding abilities and of course it's not a skill to improve agility or 'lightness'. An exponent capable of using 6MSJ should have enough inner power for solid qinggong but the qinggong doesn't come in the 6MSJ package.

I think the main point is in internal power and skills. Someone who can reach the level of 6MSJ probably has tons of power and skills to back it up.

That is a requisite. If the user doesn't have the required inner power, the 6MSJ can still work but the performance will not be optimal.

Those who reach 6MSJ by practicing will definitely have combat strategies etc, while those lucky people like DY who reached 6MSJ would probably have skills like LBWB which would allow them to cover distances fast, and BMSG would allow the exponent to have loads of energy to fire off 6MSJ. as well as allowing them to "recharge:.

See above. 6MSJ is a sword qi skill. How it's used depends on the user, just like how the sword is used depends on the swordsman. How could 6MSJ possibly allow its user to become Sun Zi or Zhuge Liang?

Recharging seems to be a good option but only if the surrounding exponents have enough energy for resupply.

I doubt that they can easily cause anyone who has reached 6MSJ to be distracted, short of natual disasters like earthquakes, floods and volcano eruptions...

See above. 6MSJ is a sword qi skill.

Finally, maybe 6MSJ has a part that teaches u how and where to aim that guarantees a kill?

Speed and intention come under swordsmanship. How the sword is used depends on te swordsman. Again, 6MSJ will only teach the user how to use his qi to project qi sword(s), but how powerful 6MSJ can be will depend on the talent of the user.



Finally, DY and 6MSJ are 2 separate issues from my POV so I'll talk about DY separately.

[Candide]

I would like to point out that if using multiple meridians simultaneously really does split up the power between each beam, then Duan Yu at this point could use 1/6 of his inner power and still make a hole in a person's chest, and this was before he sucked JMZ.

That person was just a lowly Xixia soldier.

[K2Grey]

Maybe, but most applications of internal energy over a distance screw up one's organs or inner chi flow, as opposed to making holes in people's bodies.

[TommyH]

I'm just getting more confused by the post now. There are 6 meridians that associates with the hands and fingers. Two of them only work on separate pinkys while the other four works with two fingers each? Or is it only six finger with one meridian each?

[danshu_]

I'm just getting more confused by the post now. There are 6 meridians that associates with the hands and fingers. Two of them only work on separate pinkys while the other four works with two fingers each? Or is it only six finger with one meridian each?

try reading the initial post of this thread over again

[TommyH]

try reading the initial post of this thread over again

I reread it and I am still confused. Did JY mix things up during his research or what? danshu_ you posted:

The 6 meridians mentioned above are also the exact same 6 meridians mentioned by Jin Yong in DEMI GODS AND SEMI DEVILS during his explanation of 6 Mai Shen Jian. Therefore we can be clear that these are the meridians and fingers that 6 Mai practitioners make use of to extend their sword qi. As you can see, 3 of these meridians are “yin” (1, 3, and 5), and the other 3 are “yang” (2, 4, and 6). Therefore 6 Mai Shen Jian maintains a balance between yin and yang energies. Furthermore, the 12 main energy meridians are “paired”, meaning each one is mirrored on the other side of the body in a symmetric balance. What does this mean for 6 Mai Shen Jian? Effectively, it means that all 10 fingers of the practitioner are used, giving him/her the ability to wield 12 swords simultaneously.

How can 10 fingers be having 12 swords?

[danshu_]

I reread it and I am still confused. Did JY mix things up during his research or what? danshu_ you posted:



How can 10 fingers be having 12 swords?

Because 2 meridians exit from the pinky. That part is explained in the section above the part you quoted (where I listed the 6 meridians and the fingers they exit from). Now is it clear?

[siegefried]

Haha... IcyFox, I think you take my posts too literally.

I'm talking about a level of expectance there, there's no direct comparison!! Lol!!

1. I heard there's this skill in Legendary Siblings from my friend which allowed the practitioner to have full command of his internal energy

2. Bro, I'm talking about the level of internal energy of the practitioner, not 6MSJ... hello? I never did said it had any connection with 6MSJ...

3. Alamak ah.. I know what 6MSJ is!! its the level of skill of the practitioner I'm talking about!! If you get there say by way of Elder Kurong, you sure have combat strategies etc yah... while ppl like DY who din have any combat experience would probably have some extraordinary skill or internal energy!! How else can they wield 6MSJ.... I never said anything about 6MSJ making u smarter....

4. Internal energy does help in your concentration mah... as does its cultivation. Once again, what does it have to do with 6MSJ???!!! It's the practitioner I'm talking about...

5. Yea, thats why I said later on that the Duan swordsplay might be a key to unlock 6MSJ's power, same way YYZ leads to 6MSJ....

[TommyH]

Because 2 meridians exit from the pinky. That part is explained in the section above the part you quoted (where I listed the 6 meridians and the fingers they exit from). Now is it clear?

I know I'm becoming annoying now but I know 1 meridian is the left pinky while the other is the right. So...each pinky gets two swords?

[IcyFox]

Haha... IcyFox, I think you take my posts too literally.

I'm talking about a level of expectance there, there's no direct comparison!! Lol!!

OK, since you're referring mostly to the skill level of the user here, then I wouldn't comment on your ideas because my attention is now confined to 6MSJ itself.

Later on I might try to explain how DY uses 6MSJ, so we'll probably resume the discussion/debate there.



Edit : In any case, Point 1 is invalid and will always remain so. You can always tell me about that incident in Legendary Siblings and I will provide an explanation.

[kidd]

Well, in real life TCM, two of the six meridians Jin Yong mentions do exit from the pinky of both hands. One merges with the other (which probably implies one stream, not 2). The energy from 2 meridians exits through the left and right pinkies (cause the meridians are mirrored). All other fingers are associated with one meridian only (according to TCM).

So, does it means that if DY fires all 6 Mai swords, he will only poke 5 holes in his target?

[danshu_]

So, does it means that if DY fires all 6 Mai swords, he will only poke 5 holes in his target?

No, 10 holes. Where did you get 5? Oh, its cause the meridians are mirrored; ie the lung meridian exists on the left and right side of the body, so that 1 meridian of 6 exits from the left thumb, and the right thumb.

Of course these are the TCM facts, I don't know how JY may have shifted or adapted them.